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Rennoch
01-31-2006, 2:11 AM
tonite, while watching a movie with a friend, i had a... well, i guess _I_ would call it a revelation, not quite epiphany, but... something... new. an idea never before to cross my mind.

and naturally, it begins with "what if...?"

what if... the very act of tinkering within ourselves, is not a sin against the divine will?

what if, that which drives us, those basic, instinctual levels of self, the will that forces us to resist dying and death and fight illness and disease, is not a crime against any gods?

what if, the very instincts driving us to fight against death, to find elixers and spells and medicines that stave off the inevitable, are very same instincts that drive the best and brightest amongst us to the very tome of humanity, the book of life itself, which is understood in genes?

if the divine granted us all things, as is the clarion call of almost ALL religions, then did not the divine grant us the drives that make us "play god"?

what if, that was the point.... that, having "partaken of the apple" we have to complete a journey, not suffer a torment, but seek true destiny? what if... genetic engineering isn't a crime against the divine, or indeed, even an act of "playing god", what if instead... it's the next great step in our path?

what if the sin of genetically engineering a human being to be immune to disease is not ALTERING the divine plan, but a PART of the divine plan?

either this inevitability is a stepping stone in the lessons of the divine, or else, the gods themselves are profane. after all, they gave ALL mankind these instincts. these drives to survive, did they not?

yes, i can hear the champions of the standing order, the judeo-variants, screaming about free will and the choice to resist instincts being ours. these choices, these "free will" declarations, i can see, through saddened eyes. i have a small question. if free will means you make real choices, ones that truly affect your future world, then how can a divine omnipotent being possess it? perfectly good AND omniscient means no choice. if it is perfectly good, and knows the future, it cannot freely choose to make the evil chocie, or the bad choice. it's path is a series of singular steps... it has, in effect, it's own instincts, ones which, in many ways like our own deepest ones, it cannot resist.

so it either profanes the divine by being itself, or the divine expected us to one day open the book of life.

so ends my thoughts for tonite.





Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus

DownUnder007
02-01-2006, 4:57 AM
I'm sorry, Rennoch - with great respect to your beliefs - and I don't wish to cause offence - but I have always wondered in amazement at the those that pay homage to the faith-based concept of a 'God'.


What if....

...there is NO 'divine' anything....?

What if...

...there is NO God....never has been...never was....?

What if...

...Our life, and our being, belongs to US - and only us....?


...You would then be free to tinker with yourself all you like - if you like. And so you should, IMO.


So much energy wasted in this world on this foolish concept of 'God', and a 'Divine' something, and what it all means....

So much evil in this world perpetrated in the name of 'God'....


As a prominent man here that was stone dead for 8 minutes (no brain, or heart, life at all), and was then resucitated, said:

" I've been to the 'other' side - and, trust me, there's nothing there...".


(sigh).

Rennoch
02-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by DownUnder007
I'm sorry, Rennoch - with great respect to your beliefs - and I don't wish to cause offence - but I have always wondered in amazement at the those that pay homage to the faith-based concept of a 'God'.


What if....

...there is NO 'divine' anything....?

What if...

...there is NO God....never has been...never was....?

What if...

...Our life, and our being, belongs to US - and only us....?


...You would then be free to tinker with yourself all you like - if you like. And so you should, IMO.


So much energy wasted in this world on this foolish concept of 'God', and a 'Divine' something, and what it all means....

So much evil in this world perpetrated in the name of 'God'....


As a prominent man here that was stone dead for 8 minutes (no brain, or heart, life at all), and was then resucitated, said:

" I've been to the 'other' side - and, trust me, there's nothing there...".


(sigh).

actually, in my religion, the "gods" are considered a form of incarna, defined as a concept made manifest within the understanding of the universe. so... from my religon's point of view, the question wouldn't be why is so much evil done in the name of or by the divine, but why is evil such a powerful incarna?

needless to say, it's a rather more complex worldview.

edit: blah missed my own quote in the post. grr.

"science isn't the act of replacing religon, science is the new religion. it's god demands but one thing of it's followers: competance."