Being a Sub and an Alpha Male??

[gemeyildiz]

Not sure how to say this, and for it to get understood in the way I meant it.
(Do not want to offend!)

From what I am seeing in (fetish/femdom/bdsm scene) it seems that the subs (me included) appear to have low self esteem.... and possibly this is why we like abuse, humilation, submission etc....?

Do you think this is too varied and dependant upon the individual?

I only ask, becuase me personally, I am right at the begining of my experiences with femdom and fetish in a social environment. That means me interacting with woman rather than just my self... :ninja:

I do like the feeling of submitting to a dom etc, but also yearn for real life vanilla relationships as well. The problem that I see, is that for vanilla you need some level of self esteem where as for femdom you give everything to mistress.

I guess possibly there is some level of self esteem in that you must maintain yourself to mistresses standards, but thats less self-esteem and more selfless-esteem.

Can we (I) be both submissive and an alpha male? I mean that in the vanilla sense. In the vanilla scene the girls want you to chase them and be confident etc, where as a sub who takes abuse, and is a slave, doesnt have the skill set to achive this. Or get the practice....

Am I making sense??

Dont mean to offend anyone. All I said above is my own perspective and most probably about my self.

[gemeyildiz]

No comments?

Maybe its not 100% correct, but I belive there is a level of self esteem issues that contributes to the submissives behaviour, and deep feelings of humiliation, domination, submission etc.....

Recently and only since the fetish club I went to, I feel like I need to make connection with woman. Real connections. Problem for me is my relationship with even my fetish was purely just porn and no real interaction with woman and fetish at all.

Then I started going to the fetish club, and now that I have been engaging in my fetish and 'playing' with real people in a fetish environment, it has chaged my perspective slighty, and got me hooked to socialising with people rather than secluding my self and only using porn.

Problem is however there is a clash, with vanilla. Particulalry when it comes with self esteem issues. Like I said above im hooked now to socialising. I now like going out to bars and trying to meet people.

I need to look after myself, respect my self and keep a health mind and body.

Depending on how deep you delve, fetish, femdom, bdsm hollows you out, and you just live for the next hit, abit like a junkie.

You lose your self esteem, you dont care if your body is scarred up with whip marks, heel marks, scratches, etc etc etc.... now dont get me wrong, as a submissive the idea turns me on now end.

But trying to meet woman in bars which I really am trying to do now, (sort of like a new fetish - vanilla) it doesnt help being addicted to femdom..... or at least to the really hard core stuff.

Soft core foot fetish is propably acceptable, but hard core cbt which is another one of my favourites, is not conducive to a healthy mind.

Listen to me ramble on tho, I know to much about the subject to ever come back, or be free of its lust?

Even my addiction to online porn has taken a back seat the last few months. I dont have the rabbid appetite for it any more. I still go through the motions becuase im addicted to it, but it gets boring, I lose interest or I think, I really dont think I should be doing this.

Im at a cross roads you see. I have only just strated going to the fetish club, only gone 3 times, and it is a very liberating place and alot of fun. But is it helping me, meet woman and get in to a vanilla relationship (which is where I want to be) or is it continuing my life long journey of so far going astray?

Im my drunken stuper last night, I realised, that the entire meaning of life is to achive happiness. The problem with that is one persons idea of happiness is different to anothers. Or maybe thats not a problam at all. As long as YOU achive your own ideal of happiness, then you have achived what you needed to, I guess.

Its just that my ideal of hapiness is to be with someone in a loving relationship. My addictions to bdsm femdom and foot/shoe fetishism are not helping me reach this goal.

I have had my prioritise the wrong way round all this time. My prioritise where my fetish first and nothing else. Where as the correct way for me, is vanilla first, get on the dating scene, meet some girls and then the kinky stuff can be explored in a social environ with them (if lucky). Im sure at the very least, I can find a girl who would enjoy having her feet licked, sucked etc.... that probably would satisfy my lust for my perversions. I wouldnt need the cbt porn or anything else.

[Goldman]

From what I am seeing in (fetish/femdom/bdsm scene) it seems that the subs (me included) appear to have low self esteem.... and possibly this is why we like abuse, humilation, submission etc....?

I don't think low self esteem is a reason why subs like humiliation etc, more that it's a product of acting against the socially accepted norm of how a male should act. We would be lead to believe that we should be conquering countries and women by the dozen, not falling to our knees to kiss their feet. Another reason for the low self esteem would be the constant abuse you see in modern day porn. Verbal humiliation can take its toll on the best of us, if watch these POV videos where they call you a "bitch", "loser", "piece of shit" etc it's not exactly building up ones self worth!

But hey if you can find a disconnect between that and who you really are then it shouldn't be a problem.


Do you think this is too varied and dependant upon the individual?

Indeed, not all subs have low self-esteem that is for sure.


I do like the feeling of submitting to a dom etc, but also yearn for real life vanilla relationships as well. The problem that I see, is that for vanilla you need some level of self esteem where as for femdom you give everything to mistress.

It's important to have a reasonable level of self-esteem in any relationship because generally women are attracted to confidence imo.


Can we (I) be both submissive and an alpha male? I mean that in the vanilla sense. In the vanilla scene the girls want you to chase them and be confident etc, where as a sub who takes abuse, and is a slave, doesnt have the skill set to achive this. Or get the practice....

Well you are who you are. But you can definately become more assertive in the vanilla scene through practice. A friend of mine was big into the whole "game" scene, i don't know if you've ever seen 'The pick up artist'? But this guy basically tried to teach a bunch of geeks with no confidence how to approach and interact successfully with beautiful women. Most of it seems like a load of bollocks to me. But i did pick up a few useful tips, which helped me gain confidence to approach girls out at bars. Once i gave it a go i gained a lot of confidence, and the best thing really is experience. The more you interact, more confident you become. Sure you will have setbacks, but that happens to most people.

Maybe its not 100% correct, but I belive there is a level of self esteem issues that contributes to the submissives behaviour, and deep feelings of humiliation, domination, submission etc.....

Like i said before, i think you have this the wrong way round. Low self esteem doesn't contribute towards submissive behaviour, but submissive behaviour inherently causes low self esteem.


I need to look after myself, respect my self and keep a health mind and body.

Yes, yes and yes!


Depending on how deep you delve, fetish, femdom, bdsm hollows you out, and you just live for the next hit, abit like a junkie.

Personally i disagree with this. And i feel im pretty far down the rabbit hole..


But trying to meet woman in bars which I really am trying to do now, (sort of like a new fetish - vanilla) it doesnt help being addicted to femdom..... or at least to the really hard core stuff.

You shouldn't let your fetish define you, you define you. Don't make it this massive chip on your shoulder. Don't approach every girl in a bar thinking about sex, asking questions to yourself like 'i wonder if she is into bdsm?'. Try and grow releationships on other aspects of your life, like the bands you like, favourite movies, sports etc.. normal shit! Then once you get to know them after awhile, you can kind of gauge if they are kinky or not, and whether you should aim to take it to that level. If not, just be happy you have a new friend who might have some hot friends herself!


Listen to me ramble on tho, I know to much about the subject to ever come back, or be free of its lust?

I wouldn't worry, your male, you're fairly young im guessing? Even if you aren't, your male.. Most men are obsessed with sex or things that sexually interest them. It's natural! We are just horny creatures.. Dont beat yourself up!


But is it helping me, meet woman and get in to a vanilla relationship (which is where I want to be) or is it continuing my life long journey of so far going astray?

I strive for a vanilla relationship with a kinky twist, and i think alot of people do. Not every woman at the fetish clubs want to dressed in latex all day with someone kneeling in front of them! Im sure plenty are after vanillia relationships too.


Im my drunken stuper last night, I realised, that the entire meaning of life is to achive happiness. The problem with that is one persons idea of happiness is different to anothers. Or maybe thats not a problam at all. As long as YOU achive your own ideal of happiness, then you have achived what you needed to, I guess.

Of course we all strive to be happy, im not sure it's the meaning of life, the meaning of life is to survive. If we can be happy for the majority of it, well thats a bonus in my book.


Its just that my ideal of hapiness is to be with someone in a loving relationship. My addictions to bdsm femdom and foot/shoe fetishism are not helping me reach this goal.

I think in your head it is impeading you. When in reality it isn't. Maybe you have a smaller pool of women to find someone who ticks all your boxes but femdom and loving relationship are not mutually exclusive.


I have had my prioritise the wrong way round all this time. My prioritise where my fetish first and nothing else. Where as the correct way for me, is vanilla first, get on the dating scene, meet some girls and then the kinky stuff can be explored in a social environ with them (if lucky). Im sure at the very least, I can find a girl who would enjoy having her feet licked, sucked etc.... that probably would satisfy my lust for my perversions. I wouldnt need the cbt porn or anything else.

Yea sounds about right.


I wouldn't worry so much mate! Just get out there and talk to some girls, if you do it enough im sure it's only a matter of time before you have a few positive experiences that will build your confidence and self-esteem.

Good luck!

(Sorry if i came over all Doctor Phil on you, just offering my opinion!

[gemeyildiz]

No dude, thanks for the feedback.

The honest truth, is that in the past I have just spent toooo much time on my porn addiction.

Really alot and excessive. I wasted a lot of time and destroyed my self esteem.

My addiction made me lathargic, careless, let my self go, became reclusive, even used to have my phone off permanently becuase I was either 'occupied' or didnt feel social to speak to people. I also lost probably 5-10years of courship and freindship with woman becuase I was fixated with my fetish and porn. At Uni I missed many many oppurtunites to meet girls, the last 5 years I used to not go out very much etc... now I am 30 years old, and I am living like a 20year old. I.e Im in the bars trying to pick up girls. Of course my self esteem and confidence needs work, but I am trying!!!! (Just a bit late!)

However the last 6 months I have changed alot. I was already going to bars and building up my confidence around girls, trying to talk to them etc... but it was only when I went to the fetosh club for the first time that I started to change.

Experiencing my fetishes in a social environ, made me want to step out of the shadows I hide and out in to the open.

I then transfered this to the vanilla scene as well.

Lots of things that I have neglected, I am now setting in motion and basically starting to look after my self rather than sink in to depresion etc...

But habits die hard!! I still need my porn fix. Now that im feeling more social and have my phone on, so i am avaialble to the outside wolrd, I genuinly feel the need to use porn less.

But it still is my addiction. I coud very easily and happily (unhappily) sinkback in to the shadows and just binge.

Im a really nice, genuine guy. Just need to get my prioritise the right way up and start spending more time on the vanilla and through the vanilla I will get to explore my fetish.

Its just confusing at times. How I can switch from being this nice person, to wanted to watch some hard core cbt.....

The two dont seem to belong to gether....

Hate the feeling of guilt and hate keeping secrets! Hate it, but this addiction makes me behave in ways that I feel guilty and keep secrets.

Primarily I have a shoe fetish. I admit I lick female work collegues shoes at work! This to me is a problem. Dont do it that often at the moment, but thats only becuase the oppurtunies havent been there. I hate and love doing this. Hate it becuase it causes major anxiety nad makes me feel like an outsider.

How can I go out on a Friday/Saturday night with my head held high, when I have been sneaking around licking shoes??

I get that in a fetish club, where both parties consent, then it is fine and sexy. How more lust and desire can you show a woman by licking the dirt from her shoes?

But how do you strike a balance? when you have pretty girls in the office at work, wearing sexy heels and there they leve them and you have an oppurtunity to lick em...?

I know I shouldnt, but I cant help my self.

Im not actually as selfless control as that, for instance I know that I cant do certain things, but when it something I want, I do it, or my mind is pulling me that way, whilst I try to go the other.

Fortunatly I dont get that many oppurtunities anymore, other wise I would do it alot more often than I have been.

What I want is a girlfreind. I think Im heading in the right direction recently, as I have not totally lost interest in porn, but I just cant be bothered or get bored with it.

I need to strike a balance. I think that balance will come with me putting vanilla first.

Thank you for listening to me.

[Goldman]

No problem mate, i'm very much in the same boat. Not so much on the cbt side of things but close enough. I think the best thing is to try and find a girl and have some fun. Then see how your state of mind is after a few weeks..

[gemeyildiz]

I know that its different for every one, but I reckon there is a link between submission and self esteem.

For instance I 'could' become that person, that allows his mistress, to use me as an ashtray, walk all over, leaving bascally permanent heel marks, face seat, foot stool and the deeper I go, more harsh punishments such as things I dont lie currently, such as whipping etc....

But when you get to this stage I really feel like you have to leave your self esteem behind. You cant be proud of your self and well basically an alpha male, when you are basically allowing someone else to trash your body.

Dont get me wrong this turns me on greatly, I just dont think it will lead me to happyness.

I love submission and feet/shoes, I think I will leave it at that. Even trampling which I only tried once two months (which I absolutly loved) I dont think I can do again for some time. I was left with bruises for at least 2 weeks and have a permanent scar from where one girls scraped me.

Also one of my ribs is still hurting nearly 7 weeks later.....

I loved it. I love the thought/act of submitting to a woman, and allow her to walk all over you is just so damn sexy. The problem is the tip toe to ever harder and harder stuff.

I want to get trampled again, but I think the next fetish party im going to skip it, to allow my ribs to heal (hopefully)

Besides, still causes alot of problems, I use toooo much porn.

Also through porn Iv gained new fetishes, such as ashtray slave! I dont even smoke.

Yet, I love looking at a sexy girl with tasty shoes on, smoking. Would love to be on my knees open mouth taking her ash, and of course licking her shoes/feet after wards.

But these fantasy are causeing me problems with regular girls.

I need to sample more sins of the flesh at leas its more socially acceptable.

Also, I have realised that the correct way round is vanilla first then fetish. Reason being if you put your fetish first, unless your lucky, how are you going to meet people to experience it with. Wheres as vanilla first, you meet people, you get in to relationships, and once you have your vanilla, you can add the fetish as toppings!