question about buying "offline content" from webmasters [Archive]

humanchair

08-08-2003, 9:34 PM

Just asking for input on a "what if..."
This was an idea that came across my mind and I would like some input on it... if you think it's a stupid idea then I"ll love to hear that too:) Would it even be legal? I know about warez sites that sell "warez cds" and those are of course illegal because of the warez on them. However, if it was sold by the content creator would it still be illegal?

what if webmasters sold 700 mb of offline content on a cd-r? Would you buy it? What would be the reason for buying it? What price would you pay?
It would be great for users who collect content and great for people with slow connects (dial up users). The webmaster could also include "exclusive content", "never released", or content that hasn't been posted yet. I'm not too familiar with most fetish/smother sites but the ones I've been a member to (meanbitches.com, sistas-rule.com, humiliatrix.com) could fit on one or two 700 mb cd-rs. I was able to compress some of the pictures on meanbitches.com and I have the entire site saved on a 700 mb cd-r... I'm sure some fetish sites are way too large to fit on a couple cd-rs, but there are several smaller sites that could.

I've included some pictures.... I'll be posting more if I get some feedback on this idea... I'm sure it's not new, I just haven't heard anything about it. Sure, the webmasters make money off monthly billing, but there are several people who only join a site for a couple months out of the year. This would be a chance of webmasters to make money off the non-hardcore fetish people and provide a way for easy offline viewing. This could allow people to start their collection and keep a membership to the site for the updating. The user could slowly update his collection instead of worrying about downloading hundreds of megabytes all at once.

err... of course, i probably don't know what i'm talking about so I'll love to hear other people's thoughts on this.
:D

humanchair

08-09-2003, 7:28 AM

The pictures were from smothered.com and smother.com

a few more replies (about 3) and I'll post several more pics...

moglijohnson

08-09-2003, 7:42 AM

Originally posted by humanchair

a few more replies (about 3) and I'll post several more pics...

ONE!

moglijohnson

08-09-2003, 7:43 AM

TWO!!! Is this HELPING????

moglijohnson

08-09-2003, 7:45 AM

THREE!!!!!!!:carrotdan :bananadan :bananadan :carrotdan

More pics, please...:D

humanchair

08-09-2003, 8:06 AM

well... I did get the number of replies, so it's only fair I post a little bit more.... lol, I'll be posting a lot more if the replies will have some feedback in them.

how does this sound: 4 pics for every 3 replies, and the pics will double if the replies have good feedback in them. :)

These pictures are from femdomart.net and meanbitches.com

Justeyesshowing

08-09-2003, 6:00 PM

I think the problem with the CD sales is once made it can be copied and distributed by other people who would then be doing the creator out of his cut... Ideal world and uncopyable CD's (The inventor of those would be a very rich man) and I think the price for 700meg of pictures would be too high.. after all how many months membership could they get from you to check out 700 megs worth of pictures in a site..

Just eyes...:D

(only wanted to add post to get more pictures)

off to invent uncopyable CD's now so i can afford to get in on the Vegas trip;)

chairboy

08-10-2003, 9:49 AM

What price would you pay?
I was able to compress some of the pictures on meanbitches.com and I have the entire site saved on a 700 mb cd-r...
by no means am i accusing you of anything, before you or anyone says so, but just as a pre-word be a bit careful of how you word things.......some webmasters could see the above as an attempt to rip them off by selling their entire site to non-members through copied cd's........
hope that didn't come across as an attack; it was meant to be as a note incase you get any flak.

Justeyesshowing

08-10-2003, 3:11 PM

Go on admit it Chairboy, you too only posted to get more pics :D ,

Must be enough posts now..

I think the idea was for the website owners to make and distribute CD's of site but can see what you mean if someone did "skim read" the post it could look suspicious..

Copyright is a good thing... without it this site would be full of adverts for "buy my CD of pics" or "14 gig harddrive for sale" etc etc.. and no room for posted pics (hint hint ;) )

But I have noticed a few "complete websites" appearing on Bit Torrent lists. (None of them FS sites as yet, and yes I would feel obliged to inform the webmaster if I knew them from this forum)

Just eyes...:D

(before anyone asks "no I am not selling anything" )

humanchair

08-10-2003, 7:59 PM

I said I was able to save the entire meanbitches.com site on a cd-r with compression just to show that something like this is possible. I have no plans on selling the cds. However, I would probably buy, if webmasters started selling them.

I'm sure the low number of replies is due to the fact that the question was too long. Most people on this board wouldn't want to read all of that and the topic name is kind of lame. With a more interesting topic name and a shorter question, this thread might have got more replies.

Yes, the idea was for the webmasters to make the cd themselves and sell them on their site. Sure, the disks would get pirated, but there really isn't a centralized place to buy them from the pirates. So the webmaster would continue to make money by selling them on his site...

I guess I'll consider the posts with good feedback so here's 8 pictures.

... sorry for the delay in posting... I just don't have time to check this forum every hour... I only check a couple times each day.

The pics are from smother.com, smothered.com, and meanbitches.com ----I'll try to find ohter pics from other sites in the future if you're getting bored from these sites.

humanchair

08-10-2003, 8:03 PM

:( sorry i didn't have time to pick pictures from 8 different photo shoots. I hope you enjoy the ones even though 4 of them are from the same photo shoot

:confused:

sinbad

08-11-2003, 10:36 AM

The pics are just fine humanchair, and the post wasn't too long. I guess it is possible to make a profit off of this. When I join a site though it's like a spur of a moment type of thing. I think it's more of convenience for me. It takes just a couple of minutes to join a site and see the pictures and movies. To order a cd and get it sent to you, would take a few days. Not that that's bad, and not that people woudn't wait for something worth waiting for, just less convenient for people that's on the run more and more.
Thanks for the pics.
sinbad.

Justeyesshowing

08-11-2003, 1:58 PM

Pic were great and who knows, there are enough webmasters who read this forum that maybe some will take up the idea..

Just eyes..:D

humanchair

08-11-2003, 4:41 PM

maybe a "best of" sort of cd from all the webmasters collaborating together to create a more attracting 700 mb cd-r. It would take about 7 webmasters and they would submit 100 mb of their favorite photo shoots/content from their site. They could split the profit and femdom fans like us could get a "taste" of what each site has to offer.

lol, i know that the preview section of each site is suppose to offer a "taste" of what the site is like, but the cd-r would contain the actual favorite photo shoots/videos/content from the webmasters. I think this would also be attracting to collectors who would be interested in findng the best content. Or exclusive content could be put on the disc so even the "hard-core" femdom web surfer would be interested in buying it. I'm sure if they're hard-core enough to have memberships to all those sites, then they'll buy a cd-r with some exclusive stuff.

mb = megabytes

humanchair

08-12-2003, 8:53 AM

For those of you who have been following this post, here's an update.
I got a reply from webmasterbob when I emailed him the idea. Here's his reply:
**************************************************
I don't really like that idea...

1) It is hard to find someone to handle transactions like that any
more. Mastercard and Visa have been changing the rules lately for
adult companies, making it much harder. As a result, Globill went
out of business and Ibill stopped handling hard goods (like video
tapes). I don't even have a way of selling my videos over the web
right now.

2) When you ship the content physically instead of electronically,
you have a higher risk of violating a community standards for
obescenity. I could get arrested if someone orders the material in
Ohio or Alabama and declares it to be obscenity.

3) I have to charge sales tax on hard goods that stay in California,
so I have to pay attentionto each order or risk getting in trouble.

4) I would have to go the trouble of packaging and shipping when
someone makes an order. If someone subscribes over the web,
there is no additional work.

5) CD-ROM's like that tend to have the entire thing posted on the
Internet from time to time...

Others may want to do it, but for me it is better to keep my
distribution electronic. I do have another idea coming soon,
though... be on the lookout for Meanbitches Femdom Theatre...

Regards,

--webmaster bob
**************************************************

I really appreciated this reply, so it sort of wraps up the thread... If anyone has a way to refute some of the points made, free pics will be rewarded
:D

maybe check back later and I'll post some pics for getting such great feedback, especially from webmasterbob.

:rolleyes: I think I'm starting to sound like webmasterbob or Marco and their thanks for the feedback on their pictures. Except I'm not asking for feedback on the pics, I'm asking for it on the idea.

Justeyesshowing

08-12-2003, 4:04 PM

Thanks to webmaster Bob for his reply... :D

It does seem that pirates are the least of the worries.. Whoever thought things could get that complicated... It also disproves the "hype" that people in "the industry" ignore laws.

Just eyes...:D

bill512

08-12-2003, 8:05 PM

"1) It is hard to find someone to handle transactions like that any
more. Mastercard and Visa have been changing the rules lately for adult companies, making it much harder. As a result, Globill went out of business and Ibill stopped handling hard goods (like video tapes). I don't even have a way of selling my videos over the web right now. "

Why are the rules any different for adult companies?

"2) When you ship the content physically instead of electronically,
you have a higher risk of violating a community standards for
obescenity. I could get arrested if someone orders the material in
Ohio or Alabama and declares it to be obscenity."

I've never heard of such an obscenity law. But that shouldn't be a problem anyway. If you stipulate in your contract order that by agreeing, you waive any letigation to obscenity laws or charges.

I'd like to see a CD with all those pictures on it. I think the stuff you guys gotta go through is rediculous. This is a business. A small business. What the hell they doing picking on you guys?

Visa and Mastercard should be happy to do the business!

Anyway........

bill512

08-12-2003, 8:30 PM

"I said I was able to save the entire meanbitches.com site on a cd-r with compression just to show that something like this is possible. I have no plans on selling the cds. However, I would probably buy, if webmasters started selling them."

You guys are forgetting the one important aspect of site membership - updates. What are you worried about copyright
for? When you're the source of some pretty impressive updates? The same problem is in the music industry and napster right now: people are worried about copyright material when they're completely forgetting that the thing is fulfilling it's intended purpose. Which is advertisement. I mean, Jesus Christ! You guys are complaining because your meterial is getting out there! Are you nuts?? Who the fuck taught you guys how to do business?? You don't want you material to get out there?

What are you guys worried about? Do what you want to do! If you can put 700 mb on a cdr, then do it! And sell it! Make some money! What the fuck is the debate?

bill512

08-12-2003, 9:11 PM

the big mystery........... ooooooo.........

let me tell ya, if you put your stuff out on the internet and you expect there to be some sort of copyright? I'm here to tell you: "fuck you". No copyright. Kiss my fucking ass.

I'm done with this. I'm not being told what to do by some vague fucking mystery. You fuckers gotta figure out that what we got here is consumers and consumees. And if you don't like that fucking deal then kiss my fucking ass buddy.

Here's the deal: You guys supply. We consume. You guys are the source. We are the buyers. Now fuck this bullshit and lets get down to some facesitting. This is rediculous. There's no fucking mystery. You provide a product and we buy. That's the way it works.

Thank you very fucking much.
Bill

unbievable.......................

dalamar

08-12-2003, 9:25 PM

In terms of ease of download, I think www.cruella.com had the best idea back when they offered .zip files of complete photo sets.

This allowed you to download photo sets in one go without wasting time repeating mouse clicks to save the pics (and advancing carpal tunnel syndrome).

Additionally, because the .zip files were only available from the site, people had to join (thereby reducing piracy).

On the note of the CDs being pirated, you don't think that happens already?? Jerks downloading entire sites, burning CDs and selling them to bigger jerks for low $$ prices.

I personally abhore any individual who is working to put this great industry out of business by pirating what is already difficult material to publish. I think that the adult web sites out there do a great job of producing high-quality material that is well distributed at low prices. I always come down *very* hard on anyone I find trying to procure, steal, pillage etc.. any adult material from the web.

Rant, rant, rant, bitch, bitch, moan -- ah yes, the problem still didn't go away.

Anyway, to cut a short story long, the CD thing probably won't work for now. The .zip entire photo set idea worked great for me on Cruella, but I understand how it could cut down on continued membership.

The best solution for web sites trying to retain members is to follow the examples of such sites as:
www.foot-domination.com
www.femaledom.com
and continue to produce a regular stream of high-quality material.

Anyway, this is probably longer than anyone will ever take the time to read, so I'm done!!!

-- Dalamar

bill512

08-12-2003, 9:41 PM

"piracy"?

what are you fucking nuts? Piracy? What about advertisement? What about getting the word out there so you can sell your fucking product? Ever Heard of that?

"hard on anyone I find trying to procure, steal, pillage etc.. any adult material from the web."

Haven't you ever heard of open source? What's the big secrecy? You want to sell a product, but you don't want people to know that you sell a product? This is rediculous!

"Anyway, to cut a short story long, the CD thing probably won't work for now. The .zip entire photo set idea worked great for me on Cruella, but I understand how it could cut down on continued membership."

What the fuck are you afraid of? Do you, or do you not have a product that's worth selling? Yes or no?

Unbelievable............ This is rediculous!

You guys are paranoid schizophrenics! If you have a product that people will buy, then there's no reason not to sell it and make money! Did you get your fucking MBAs from the community college of doofusville or what??

Updates!

You are the source of the material!

What are you afraid of??

dalamar

08-12-2003, 10:04 PM

Wow. Somebody *really* likes me!

Originally posted by bill512
[B]"piracy"?

what are you fucking nuts? Piracy? What about advertisement? What about getting the word out there so you can sell your fucking product? Ever Heard of that?

How eloquent. Now that I understand the well thought out reasoning and solid basis of your argument, permit me to respond....

Let me start off by saying that I think the largest mistake made by most web sites to date is **POOR ADVERTISING!**.

The only, and I mean ONLY reason I EVER join a web site is because I like a lot of their preview material. Without a preview, I won't even consider most web sites. I have spent probably $300 this year alone in web site memberships and agree with John that there are two kinds of people (those who join and those who don't). I am a joiner, but only after a taste of what I will get for my $$$.

I am totally in favor of freebies, previews, advertising, anything that lets people know what they will get. But I absolutely must distinguish between "good advertising" and "opening yourself up to the largest commercial piracy rape of all time"!!!

Good previews, adverts, preview memberships etc.. are great!

I believe that this argument revolves around distribution, not around the quality of the product. Distribution is not something to be taken lightly. Afraid, ABSOLUTELY! Anyone distributing copyrighted material should be *very* afraid. Piracy on the internet is running rampant...and digital content is virtually untraceable (professional content tracking such as digital watermarking is very expensive).

Unbelievable............ This is rediculous!
{yes, this is very rediculous}
/ thought to self
hmm, they have become self satirizing
/ end though to self

In conclusion, I personally think that any web sites providing content are taking extreme risks in exposing material that is *very* expensive to produce and often yields very little financial return. Anyone who has ever tried to distribute adult movies will understand what I mean here.

-- Dalamar

p.s.
Congratulations on unnecessary and profuse use of the word 'fuck' by the way....well done!!

FUCK, FUCK, FUCK!!!!!! (hey, shit I can do it too!!! :) )

webmasterbob

08-12-2003, 10:05 PM

Bill, the obscenity law I am referring to is called The Communications Decency Act of 1996 ("CDA").

Here is some information I found on Adultwebmaster.com:

The Communications Decency Act of 1996 ("CDA") prohibits the dissemination of obscene materials on the Internet. Although the U.S. Supreme Court enjoined that part of the CDA which prohibited dissemination of "indecent" materials, the obscenity portion of the Act remains intact. The penalties that can be dished out for obscenity violations can be draconian. Obscenity charges themselves can range from misdemeanors to felonies in the various states, however many states as well as the federal government allow obscenity violations to be used as "predicate acts" for racketeering charges. What this means is that if the government can prove that several (normally a minimum of 2) obscene images were sold or disseminated within a period of time (approximately 5 years), any participant in that business may be charged with racketeering, or conspiracy to commit racketeering, which carries with it horrendous penalties including forfeiture of your business assets, a six figure fine and many years in prison.
------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, obscenity laws are very important issue for most adult webmasters right now. A company called Extreme Associates was indicted last week for distributing obscenity. They face time in prison for selling adult videos.

From a recent article on CNSnews.com:

U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, who upon taking over the Justice Department in 2001 signaled that he would revive the Justice Department's anti-pornography efforts, released a statement following the indictment of Extreme Associates.

"Today's indictment marks an important step in the Department of Justice's strategy for attacking the proliferation of adult obscenity," Ashcroft stated.

"The Justice Department will continue to focus our efforts on targeted obscenity prosecutions that will deter others from producing and distributing obscene material. I congratulate the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Pennsylvania, the U.S. Postal Inspectors and our other partners whose hard work and dedication made these charges possible."
----------------------------------------
In other words, more indictments are coming.

Bill, just as in any business, good adult webmasters try to obey all relative laws. If an adult webmaster is not careful, he can easily wind up defending himself in court. Even if you win, you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on your defense, and be out of business during that period. There are laws governing record-keeping, and there are laws about obscenity. I think the best way to avoid trouble is to understand the laws as best as one can, and do your best to avoid putting yourself in jeopardy. I try to follow all laws, and to avoid producing material that could be interpreted as being obscene.

I am not saying that mailing CD's is a sure way to get in trouble. I am just saying that the negatives outweigh the rewards.

--webmaster bob

sinbad

08-13-2003, 12:04 AM

Jeez bill. Have a rough day?

bill512

08-13-2003, 7:40 AM

wow, i'm really really sorry guys. that's all booze. please excuse me.

Bill

Kyle_Narshadaa

08-13-2003, 7:54 AM

Originally posted by bill512
wow, i'm really really sorry guys. that's all booze. please excuse me.

Bill

Bill, i knew some bottles of rum were missin in my cellar LOL
thats good that you were just drunk.
I thought it was like some alter ego.
Something like the Incredible Hulk, Jekyll and Hyde
or the infamous alter ego metamorphosis of

bill512 <<<>>> Bokus Rutz

:D :D :D :D :D

humanchair

08-13-2003, 9:08 AM

I figured this thread was dead, but it looks like more posts are coming so I'll update it with pictures.

These pictures are from smothered.com, smother.com, meanbitches.com, jeanssitting.com....I know I promised to find more sources for the pics but I just can't find any that match the quality of meanbitches.com or smother.com.

guntroubles

08-13-2003, 9:44 AM

Thanks for the pics and the interesting thread humanchair.

Bill- the booze is the devils work. I really liked your rant - it was very entertaining.

bill512

08-13-2003, 1:26 PM

well, i was drunk. So i retract everything i said.

but there is something to say about putting an 800 number on a 50 foot street billboard, and then getting angry when people read it.

music and mp3s were the big multimedia software sell for all the big software makers. and now they sell and they're going to throw people in jail for 5 years for liking it. surely the inventors of this great new tech have a better solution for us consumers than that.

these people could have 5 5 million dollar homes and they'd still be complaining! the internet is one big giant billboard. it's supposed to be free. it's supposed to be a medium where all it's content is free and a free advertisement. a sell.

and from what i understand with your websites, members get access to more content, and newer and updated files. people buy the cds because they've seen the advertisement and they like it.

Anyway.... where's my rum. :D

John

08-13-2003, 1:30 PM

Originally posted by bill512
well, i was drunk. So i retract everything i said.

The smartest thing you've said....

Originally posted by bill512
the internet is one big giant billboard. it's supposed to be free. it's supposed to be a medium where all it's content is free and a free advertisement.

The dumbest thing you've said...

And that was no easy distinction among the myriad dumb comments....

bill512

08-13-2003, 1:43 PM

it's not dumb, John. It's the way it works! You guys have a choice here. You choose good will or bad will. Glass half full or glass half empty. These are your customers, not your enemy. If they like what they see they'll buy it. If they don't they won't.

John

08-13-2003, 2:05 PM

Originally posted by bill512
it's not dumb, John. It's the way it works!

Says who? Show me a company doing business on the internet, that intends on making a profit in some way, that thinks that content on the web should be free. You've made a statement that the internet is supposed to be free. Please back that up with WHY it's supposed to be free. Now you have made a definitive statement that "it's the way it works..."

Prove it. Show me how "it's the way it works." Give an example.

Originally posted by bill512
You guys have a choice here. You choose good will or bad will. Glass half full or glass half empty. These are your customers, not your enemy.

Meaningless rhetoric. Be specific for once and give an example. How is a business that doesn't want to do this choosing between good will and bad will? How is not doing this treating people as enemies instead of customers? Facts, not rhetoric, please....

Originally posted by bill512
If they like what they see they'll buy it. If they don't they won't.

Also, please refrain from meaningless statements....thanks...

bill512

08-13-2003, 3:38 PM

"Says who? Show me a company doing business on the internet, that intends on making a profit in some way, that thinks that content on the web should be free. You've made a statement that the internet is supposed to be free. Please back that up with WHY it's supposed to be free. Now you have made a definitive statement that "it's the way it works..."

Prove it. Show me how "it's the way it works." Give an example."

These models are going independent. Making their own websites. Why should they have to take a salary when they can own the whole business and put their own name on it? It's a sell. The topic isn't facesitting, it's Jane Smith. That's how models get recognized. That's how anything gets recognized. By putting their statement on the internet. What do you mean "prove it"?

If you want to make a profit you show as many people as you possibly can your product. By any and all means possible. Who cares about the piracy? 90% of the people out there are going to pay for it (if they like it) to get more. Same thing with music. If a song is good when it's played on the radio then people buy the album. The album isn't free. The song they like is. It's played on the freaking radio. And you don't sell the music. You sell the artists. You create groupies. You're not selling website businesses here, you're selling models. You're selling art and fetish.

You're the people that made the pictures. What are you worried about? You're the source. That's what people pay for. More.

"1) It is hard to find someone to handle transactions like that anymore. Mastercard and Visa have been changing the rules lately for adult companies, making it much harder. As a result, Globill went out of business and Ibill stopped handling hard goods (like video tapes). I don't even have a way of selling my videos over the web right now."

Adult content and obscenity laws are just like carding somebody at the 7-11 if they want to buy a smut magazine or a pack of smokes. How are you carding them? How do you sell someone smut when you don't even know who they are? And the same thing the other way. How does a consumer know that they're sending money to someone whos legit? What other possible purpose could there be for the internet besides advertisement??

"Meaningless rhetoric. Be specific for once and give an example. How is a business that doesn't want to do this choosing between good will and bad will?"

They feel they have to protect their content with copyright laws. I mean, we're not consumers, we're future defendents. How can a picture in my web browser be any different from one in my picture directory? What? The window? The CD?

You don't have to do it. You don't have to make money either. This isn't about what you have to do. This is about what you should do.

"How is not doing this treating people as enemies instead of customers? Facts, not rhetoric, please.... "

By giving people the benefit of the doubt you make them open their wallets. And why is it meaningless rhetoric to give potential customers the benefit of the doubt? What is a trend to you? Spin? Rhetoric? Money.

I'm in no way promoting piracy here. That's not even the issue. You guys should be flattered, and not insulted. The issue is that for some reason or another software and entertainment companies are afraid of the internet. And when they wrote the dog gone scripts themselves. It's like they're protecting themselves out of business.

But hey, I'm living in my own little world over here. I don't know a thing........

Justeyesshowing

08-13-2003, 4:06 PM

Blimey!

(remind me never to log on after a few "shandies".)

Bill,
Eloquently put but a very "ideal world" senario... No way was the internet ever going to be "free" from the moment your modem goes "click" the isp, the telephone companies or the cable firms all start making a little bit of money.. Life is about money (sure we all wish it wasn't but money does make the world go round). When you find something for free on the "net" it is the miracle (ie this forum). If all the sites on the net were free they would have no content, instead they would hold teasers asking you to "purchase" the products in another way. Does your newsagaent give you free Porn mags? Why should the suppliers do it on the net?

I agree with you in spirit in wanting all to be free but temper it with the knowledge the there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Basically you get what you pay for... Pay the fee get big sharp pictures or get the same picture of Yahoo club (free) and it is smaller, cropped and so compressed the pixels are showing..

John's forum spoils us in as much as the webmasters post their teasers here, large good quality pictures which we start to expect to get everywhere for the same price (gotta love the webmasters ;) ) Unfortunatly unless we pay, we get cheap copies.

As for copyright, yes it exists and long may it do so.. without it the next photo shoot may never be financed etc.. Look at the copyright holders as people not nameless entities and you'll understand it better.
Why shouldn't Mr X get paid for that rather splendid photo of an expensive model being paid a little extra to bury his poor nose deep inside her as his assistant takes the shot. Sure he got the pleasure but then he has to pay her, his assistant, buy film etc etc etc.

(Blimey this soap box is getting rocky now better get off quick)

What I think I am saying (note the word think) is most agree it would be nice to have it all free but alas the world dictates otherwise. Now maybe if the sites were cheaper...... ;)

Just eyes...:D

(passes soap box to next in line)

(humanchair how did our fun little thread get so serious :p ps nice pics..:D )

bill512

08-13-2003, 4:47 PM

"Eloquently put but a very "ideal world" senario... No way was the internet ever going to be "free" from the moment your modem goes "click" the isp, the telephone companies or the cable firms all start making a little bit of money.. "

With all due respect, that's not true. There's unlimited service. There's even free service. There's even free long distance service. And I'm a member of my ISP and my telephone company.

"Life is about money (sure we all wish it wasn't but money does make the world go round). When you find something for free on the "net" it is the miracle (ie this forum). If all the sites on the net were free they would have no content, instead they would hold teasers asking you to "purchase" the products in another way. Does your newsagaent give you free Porn mags? Why should the suppliers do it on the net? "

A news organization gives you free news. And it's paid for by the fact that I watch their channel. Advertisers make sure of that. I watch their commercials.

"I agree with you in spirit in wanting all to be free but temper it with the knowledge the there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Basically you get what you pay for... Pay the fee get big sharp pictures or get the same picture of Yahoo club (free) and it is smaller, cropped and so compressed the pixels are showing.. "

Why are you and John saying I want it to be free? I want it to be advertised. The war is with the technology, not with business. A 400 dollar computer has the potential to put you guys out of business? C'mon.

"John's forum spoils us in as much as the webmasters post their teasers here, large good quality pictures which we start to expect to get everywhere for the same price (gotta love the webmasters ) Unfortunatly unless we pay, we get cheap copies."

I totally agree. My hats off to this forum, and the one in Europe. You've sold me. It's a model.

Justeyesshowing

08-13-2003, 5:09 PM

Bill you gotta remember I am in UK and here they sting you for every minute of Net time.... either pay per minute or pay for unlimited... even "freeserve" ain't free here...LoL we even have to pay for licence to watch TV!!!!!!! How f**kin' obsurd is that!

(I love the UK but "Rip of Britain" is a phrase heard far too often nowadays.)

You posted your reply to John as I slowly typed my post hence mine sounding kinda daft.

the best bit about this forum is you can debate subjects here, I am convinced John likes nothing better than a good eloquent debate and at least he, unlike some other forum host I have been to, isn't afraid to stand up and shout. You know when you have said enough though when he gets out his dancing pig.:D

(Cue the dancing Pig LOL)

Just eyes...

:D