US Policies at work

[turbs]

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[footsniffa]

yeah, that is f'd up... my trees come from canada; if the us makes it harder for them to get into my hands, then i'LL have to pay even more. i'm aLready paying through the nose as it is.

"i hit the trees harder than sonny bono"

[John]

Where are the Canadian hosted fetish forums that people can go to and talk shit about Canada?

[caljag]

John you said it. It`s like the old saying nobody likes a cop until they save your life.The USA has saved allot of people`s lives over the years. I guess every Country has it`s trash, and nobody is perfect. But at least the USA tries to keep the world safe from Terrorism as Well as some other good Countries.

[turbs]

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[moglijohnson]

Turbs,
WHOA!!! Take a freakin' pill,man!! You're talking shit on my country! I admit that there are alot of political things this country does that I disagree with, but Christ! Don't be talkin' shit about my homeland! I didn't bash Canada for charging me $15.00 dollars (US) for a fucking cheeseburger!!! I told everyone about the wonderful time I had while staying in your country! I could have bashed Canada for the border cops attitude, and the way I was treated enroute to your country!!! Some things you can't control. Such as, I don't blame you, Turbs, for the reckless Canadian drivers on our roads! It's not your fault,directly! You just live in a country that allows morons to have cars! And I don't blame you directly for the high prices placed on merchandise in Lake George,NY by canadian business people! They're selling crap and asking a fortune for it!!! But it's not your fault! You just happen to live in a country that thinks American's are all retards!
All I'm saying,Turbs is GO SMOKE A BLUNT UNDER A CANADIAN MAPLE AND LEARN HOW TO DRIVE BEFORE YA COME TO AMERICA!!! :D Thank you! I think I feel much better now...

[turbs]

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[smashed]

Take the good with the bad turbs. If it wasn't for the good old USA you'd be ripe for the concuring. We spend BILLIONS AND BILLIONS defending you guys and assisting you EVERY time you need help. We're not perfect, but we do more for more people in this world than any other country could even dream of doing. If you're upset because you want to go smoke a joint, then I've just lost all respect for you.

I'm getting sick and tired of everyone taking shots at the USA, and then when a crisis comes along, you come running to us for help. If it were up to me, all you ungrateful people would get nothing from the USA and then you'd realize how much we've helped you in the past.

As for the USA being concerned with drug laws. Halleluyah!!!! I've seen first hand what drugs do to people(even pot), and how it wrecks lives and families. If you're too stupid to stay away from them, then you do need your Government to step in and assist you.

Of course your countries government is so perfect. I especially like you GST tax,so nice to the citizens of canada. Maybe that why canada wants to loosen the laws on pot. More money for the government. Hmmmmmm.

[turbs]

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[turbs]

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[moglijohnson]

Turbs,
You're right, this is the "Flame Pit"...so, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!
I'm kidding!!! We,as a people,can't control what our government does! Our country was based,originally,by the people for the people! That changed when money came into play! The rich rule the world! Money buys politicians! And the poor working class stiffs that live under their rule have to deal with it! Look what NY is doing to smokers!!!! I've been smoking since I was 15! Now the government of NY makes me feel like a criminal!!! My hard earned money pays taxes,just like everyone else...but I have to stand outside the restuarant to enjoy a cigarette after dinner?!
I can't control it! But I don't have to agree with it!!!!!! Such is life!
The rich get richer and the poor get FUCKED!

[turbs]

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[John]

I'm confused as to why we're supposed to care about any of this....we are not obligated to do business with any country for any reason. If you choose not to support our decisions, we are supposed to just say "well, okay, let's do everything your way, anyway?"

I have owned several businesses. Whenever I had partners, distributors, etc...that did not agree with my way of doing things, I parted ways. That is the way life works. Sometimes I was forced to stay in arrangements longer than I wanted to for monetary reasons. That is the way life works, too. Live with it...

[kenrug]

At the risk of looking like a “me too” to John’s post (I actually decided to respond after reading the first post)…

I’m always, always confused by this argument in all its forms. Let’s start with an analogy:

I’m a millionaire (not really, but work with me on this one). I walk around town with a few thousand dollars in my wallet. There’s a street vendor who’s Philly Cheese Steak sandwiches I like pretty well, and once or twice a week I drop by to get one. That was, until yesterday. When I dropped by, anticipating a reasonably good sandwich I found that Jimmy (the vendor) had decided that it was acceptable for him to flip me the bird after I had just bought one of his sandwiches.

“What the hell is this?!” I say to myself. Well, having a little self-respect, and the money, I decide to try one of Harvey’s Hot Hamburgers instead. It doesn’t make much difference to me what I eat, as long as I like it. So, I stroll down the road and buy from Harvey.

I can hear Jimmy behind me yelling at the top of his lungs, telling me what an arrogant, rich, power-hungry bastard I am. I flip him the bird.

Point is: If it’s my money, I can do whatever the hell I want to do with it. It doesn’t belong to Jimmy just because I used to buy from him. This is true whether it’s me not buying Dixie Chicks CDs, or the US putting tariffs on lumber. Just because the US had an arrangement with Canada in the past does not mean that Canada should expect, much less demand that this arrangement continue ad infinitum. Unless there’s been a treaty violation, of course.

If we don’t want to do business with New Zealand because of their desire not to have nuclear powered (and/or armed) naval vessels in their territorial waters, well, that’s just the way it is. It’s not, after all, like we’re invading. We are, in fact, staying away. Not coming to the party, declining the invitation, blowin’ ‘em off.

Jimmy offended me. That’s his right. Just like I have the right to buy from Harvey instead. That Jimmy gets mad because of my choice means that he was not in the same decision-making position as am I. That makes Jimmy mad, but it’s not my fault.

It’s just the way things are.

I never studied economics, so I’m not sure, but there has got to be a basic rule of thumb when doing business (something like): Don’t piss off your customers. And its corollary, of course: if you do piss off your customers, don’t be surprised if they no longer buy your wares.

[turbs]

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[footsniffa]

the us and canada shouLd just form one monster of a country... i'm thinking the new name couLd be, "mexico sucks"

[kenrug]

Hey, buddy.

Yep, I’m in full agreement with you that if we violated NAFTA then Canada has an unmitigated right to take the US to court. If Canada wins then that’s the way it goes, and the US will have to retract its policy. As I noted, contractual obligations (i.e. treaties) are binding. They actually become part of US constitutional law once ratified by the senate, which is why even the dims (democrats) were so reluctant to ratify the Kyoto Treaty (and the International Criminal Court!).

Of course, NAFTA has provisions for countries that think they’re being taken advantage of by other countries. Apparently, since the US is accusing Canada of “dumping” the lumber, we find our selves in a situation of dispute, and this will end up in court.

I remember, however, that someone (I believe it was you; if I’m wrong I apologize) mentioned New Zealand (which I referenced in my comments). New Zealand is not part of NAFTA, therefore (unless other treaties are involved) they have no recourse (in fact, no basis for bitching) when we imposed economic sanctions. “Them’s the breaks” and they should realize that actions have consequences, just like we have to have a realistic understanding that our actions, too, have consequences.

Originally posted by turbs
And besides, reality is that we both need eachother to survive. The US can't survive without Canada and Canada can't survive without the States.

As for that, I don’t know exactly what to say while still being kind. I have many Canadian friends (such as you) and don’t want to give offense. But, other than having a couple thousand miles of secure territory north of our northern boarder, there’s nothing so critical that Canada provides the US that the US couldn’t exist without.

I believe that Canada is our most significant trading partner. It’s great to have an industrialized, modern country right next door. And if no trade happened we’d have to make some significant adjustments to compensate. However, if Jimmy’s stand closed down, Harvey’s would step into place, replacing some of the functional usefulness that Jimmy’s establishment used to provide (maybe the US would have to invest heavily in Mexico to bring them up to an industrial society, though the natural resources are not the same).

If the US didn’t exist then Canada would be forced to make substantial changes in their own economy and massively increase their defense posture. As I noted, I have a number of Canadian friends, and with few exceptions they tell me that they are angered by the current Canadian administration’s heavy reliance on US military protection (due to the recent draw-downs in Canada’s military). You’ve got a lot of nice, arable land in Canada, and a very tempting amount of other natural resources… all defended by 30 million people (not many). If I were some high-population, low-resource country (say, Japan, for example), and I were militaristically minded, I’d bee looking your way real soon. If you know what I mean.

Then again, if Canada suddenly disappeared, we’d have to put pontoons under the Alaskan Pipeline.

My point is: both could continue without the other. We’d adapt. In a way it makes our mutual friendship all the more honorable (regardless of the occasional slap-fight). But we’d each have to economically adjust. I guess the salient issue would be, who’d have a harder time?

Cheers, ol’ buddy.

Ken

PS I want to strangle Michael Bloomberg over his smoking laws. What a prissy little asshole.

[footsniffa]

Originally posted by kenrug

PS I want to strangle Michael Bloomberg over his smoking laws. What a prissy little asshole.

not to be outdone... LittLe new york (boston) foLLowed suit 2 days ago. i had no idea bLoomberg was a pinko too.

[turbs]

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[jump]

...back to the opening posting by turbs

Being the most visible western country in terms of military force and economy, the USA atract a lot of atension by the rest of the world. The USA have just been through a war that have been proclamed as a war to bring freedom and democracy to the people of Iraq. I find it very natural that the people of the world then look into the USA to see how they deal with those issues inside their own country - the US have, by their visibility brought focus at their own country.

To the policeactions:

Looking back at 9/11 I recall many american politicians that, in the period right after, warned people not to panic becaurse that is exactly what the terrorists what us to do. Not to fence us behind walls and barbwire, not change the way of living that we prefere and love, the open, democratic and free society - its what they, the terrorists, want most of all. They want us to live in the same stoneage culture as they live within. They want us to give up democracy, they want us to become like them self - lawless. By compromising at the justice, as I think the US does in this case, and does regarding the prisoners on Cuba, I think that the US have moved in a wrong direction, the direction of what the terrorists want us to move. The motives are of course good - but honnorble motives does not justify selling out of justice, at least not at the scale that we have been seen in NY resently as I see it.

Regards
jump

[MOXI]

WAIT A MIN.!!! If I were Canada, I'd be quiet! Because we have Alaska and that makes you almost surounded !!!

[MOXI]

OH! ALMOST FORGOT! hello Turbs ,hows it going (you trouble maker you!).................Moxi

[barracuda426]

Originally posted by moglijohnson
Turbs,
You're right, this is the "Flame Pit"...so, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!
I'm kidding!!! We,as a people,can't control what our government does! Our country was based,originally,by the people for the people! That changed when money came into play! The rich rule the world! Money buys politicians! And the poor working class stiffs that live under their rule have to deal with it! Look what NY is doing to smokers!!!! I've been smoking since I was 15! Now the government of NY makes me feel like a criminal!!! My hard earned money pays taxes,just like everyone else...but I have to stand outside the restuarant to enjoy a cigarette after dinner?!
I can't control it! But I don't have to agree with it!!!!!! Such is life!
The rich get richer and the poor get FUCKED!


Ya know.. I'm really glad they are banning smoking from restaurants. I don't come over and piss in your plate so why should mine smell like smoke?

'Cuda

[footsniffa]

this smoking ban vioLates our 38th amendment.

i wonder what state governments wouLd do if smokers throughout the us quit coLd turkey today? sure, they'd save medicaL costs, but how do you feeL those costs compare to the sin-taxes we pony up on every pack? it's aLL about promoting good heaLth, but it's reaLLy a crock. in taxachussetts (or francachussetts, or baathachussetts), every pack now carries over $4 in taxes (they're gonna Levy another $0.75 most LikeLy this year). that's a heLLuva Lot of Loot they're reaping in. how many services wouLd be cut or curtaiLed if that chunk of money suddenLy became unavaiLabLe?

they mooch off our addiction, and then throw it back in our face.

[barracuda426]

Originally posted by footsniffa
they mooch off our addiction, and then throw it back in our face.

Isn't that what crack dealers do also? Mmmmm, crack.

'Cuda