Off-topic: Beeing DUTCH.. the manual part 1

[editor]

It is is surely off-topic but maybe something to read about in these troubled times...

1. Never use the word "Dutch" in front of a Hollander. It reminds him too much of the word "Deutsch" which is a word for Germans and other things he doesn't like. A Dutchman is a Hollander or a Nederlander.

2. Never ever try to speak Hollands even if you have lived in Holland for more than five years. Not only will it give you a splitting headache but also Hollanders won't understand a single word of what you are trying to say. Foreigners are expected to speak English or gibberish. Speaking gibberish they are easy prey for pickpockets since they can't make a report to the police.

3. Also never try to eat "drop". Drop is a kind of licorice that only Hollanders can eat. It can be recognized by its colour: black. The taste is a cross between printer ink (blue) and earwax. Hollanders absolutely love it and eat kilos of the revolting stuff. There is a nationwide conspiracy to look at the faces of foreigners who are tricked into believing it is edible.

4. Do not buy wooden shoes. They will look absolutely silly on you. Which is of course the main reason for selling them to you in the first place. A Hollander himself wouldn't like to be found dead in them. (As a matter of fact, they wouldn't like to be found dead at all)

5. Do not make holes in dikes. Behaviour like that is not only frowned upon but in certain cases can get you stoned to death with wooden shoes by an angry mob. You may feel free however to stick a finger in any dike you like. It'll get you a few good laughs from the natives.

6. A Hollander is always right and he knows it. With this in the back of your mind it is easy to deal with most of them. If ever you get into an argument with a Hollander, tell him that he is absolutely right and that you see the error of your ways. This will drive him absolutely crazy: Since you are a foreigner you can't be right. You agree with him. Therefore he also cannot be right. Impossible! He is a Hollander. But.. why.. he.. At this point you may want to stand back and watch him try to strangle himself with a tulip.

7. Windmills are unavoidable.

8. It is not necessary to show an interest in tulips, windmills, wooden shoes or cheese. Every Hollander knows that you came for the softdrugs or the Amsterdam red light district, the Walletjes. Both are available in a large quantity and are easy to find. Ask any Hollander age six or older or any French tourist (see items 19 & 20)

9.Avoid fans of soccer games at all cost. Soccer in Holland is merely an excuse used for bashing in the brains of just about everyone else, including yours, after the game is won. ...Or lost...Or if it is a draw. It is also very unwise to stand near a policeman during these festivities. (see item 10) Also, whenever there's a Hollander around: "Don't mention the 1974 Worldcup soccer-final against Germany in Germany with their starplayer..the Michael Jordan of Soccer Johan Cruijff". You'll end up in an ongoing discussion about how well the Orange team played and how marvellous it is that a small country like Holland has such a good team and blah-de-blah-de-blah.

10. Policemen in Holland may be used for throwing things at. If you feel like hitting someone or something, use a policeman. No Hollander will pay any attention if you decide to hit, maim, or kick a policeman in the groin. Policemen represent authority and no Hollander recognizes any authority higher than himself. You may also note that a lot of Hollandse policemen are in fact foreigners tricked into taking the job.

11. Hollanders do not like to spend money, they'd sooner cut off their own ears. A Hollander will become a friend for life if you give him something for free. (Note: Social diseases are an exception) This might explain the success of MacDonald's in Holland. The story that copper wire is an invention of two Hollanders fighting over a found cent is absolutely true.

12. Holland is small. There is a rumour that Holland is put inside during rainstorms. Not true, but that is mainly because it rains about 365 days each year. This might also explain those wooden shoes: They float. Yes, Holland is small and Hollanders are proud of it. They will grab every opportunity to point out to you that the nation has accomplished great things, despite of it being so small. A suitable answer to this swank is the Hollander's imperialistic past. Wich brings us -rather nicely- to item 13.

13. If you wish to insult a Hollander -and sooner or later you will - simply tell him you don't think he is a pacifist. Now immediately start running for your life. He'll want to prove to you that he is a peace loving person and he won't stop proving this until your intestines are scattered all over the floor. However, mentioning a supposedly imperialistic past considering Surinam and/or Indonesia, will instantly reduce a Hollander to a pathetic, sniffing and crying child, begging for forgiveness.

14. The Hollanders are supposed to be tolerant. They are not. They simply make too much money from the sale of soft- and hard-drugs, Malaysian women and pornography to foreigners to let an opportunity for making a good profit go by.

15. The main form of public transportation in Holland is bikes. Feel free to take any bike of which you are able to pick the lock. Don't expect your own bike however to be where you left it three minutes earlier. The hunting season for bikes is open 365 days a year. Have fun.

16. At nearly every meal in Holland you will find a small vicious looking blade with a slit in it. It is called a "kaasschaaf" and is used for taking very thin (the see-through kind) slices of the cheese. Yes, it is indeed an invention made by a Nederlander. Never cut cheese with a knife, you'll make an utter fool of yourself. Another peculiar dinner tool is the "flessenlikker", which literally means "bottle-licker", but which is best translated by "yoghurt-scraper". Note that this tool is not meant to get rid of an itchy back or for your nightly escapades. It's designed to clean out bottles of yoghurt or vla" which is a sort of custard. The Nederlanders wants to use absolutely every millilitre of the yoghurt or 'vla' he bought. He paid for all of it and he'll jolly well eat all of it.

17. At the time of this writing, the Hollandse economy is doing quite well. The Hollanders say that this is the result of extensive negotiating between parties like the unions, the employers and the government. They even have a name for this: The polder model. Foreigners are made to believe that this polder model is the key to a healthy economy and if others should follow this polder model, their economy's will also improve dramatically. This is utter nonsense. Hollanders just love to talk and talk and talk. Calling all this talking negotiations only gives them a sense of doing something useful. Talk is not cheap in Holland.

18. Hollanders like to drown fried potato's in litres of mayonnaise and put it in small paper bags. This is called "een patatje met". One of these bags can sustain life over an indefinite period. Not everyone agrees if it is the sort of life worth living. Some foreigners however are reported to have actually liked eating it.

19. Hollanders have a special and unique service for -mainly- French tourists. As soon as they cross the border between Belgium and Holland, they are welcomed enthusiastically by young men in fast cars. These young people wish to point out to the French tourist where the more interesting touristy places in Holland can be found. Strangely enough they always seem to end up in a coffee shop (see item 20). Funny people those French.

20. There is a fast and guaranteed way of making a complete fool of yourself in Holland: Enter a coffee shop and ask for a cappuccino. Coffee shops do not -remember this- do not sell coffee. You can however get a good number of other stimulating drugs there. For some unknown reason coffee shops are extremely popular with French tourists.

Part II comming Up

[editor]

Part II of Beeing Dutch:


21. A Fries is a semi-detached sort of Nederlander, living in the north of the country in a province all for himself. He is fond of frozen water, Beerenburg (which is a form of euthanasia with alcohol) and continuously pointing out to non-Fries Hollanders that they are -indeed- not Fries. The rest of the Hollanders look upon this behaviour with the good natured ambivalent feelings that parents have for an obstinate child.

22. On the matter of what books to buy before you come to Holland, I can recommend the following: The complete works of William Shakespeare or a leather-bound volume of the Encyclopaedia Britannica (the 1913 copy: Fr to He). In my experience these two books have just about the right weight for clubbing a pushy drug dealer or pimp on the head without leaving any marks. After hitting you might want to drop the book you were carrying at that moment for a more speedy retreat. Bring plenty of books.

23. Do not bother to hire a car. Not only can you steal more bikes than you will need but car-traffic in Holland is not something you will enjoy. In the rest of the world traffic jams are measured in miles or kilometres, Nederlandse traffic jams are measured in weeks. As a matter of fact, the more persistent traffic-jams are well worth a touristic visit. The sight of starving people in an expensive Mercedes can be quite uplifting if you are of a philosophic nature. You may want to bring some pieces of bread with you to throw through open car windows. The resulting fights can often be worth watching.

24. Contrary to popular belief, you may not bring your mother-in-law to Holland for do-it-yourself euthanasia. Tourists are warned not to take these matters into their own hands.

25. Whether you are catholic, Muslim or worshipper of Urrrgl, god of all honest politicians, in Holland you are likely to run into a church, temple or oak-tree-and-virgin of your liking. Hollanders are supposed to be very tolerant of other believes, ways of life and religious convictions. They are not. The only reason for there being so many different churches, sects and cults is the fact that Hollanders disagree on just about anything. A Hollander is always right (see item 6) and anyone who thinks different than him can jolly well bugger off and start his own church.

26. Holland is a kingdom. It has no king but a queen and her husband is no king but a prince. The queen doesn't rule the country well, not much anyway- but she is very good at opening bridges, roads and visiting other countries. She is also very decorative at state banquets. Her son, the crown prince, will be king as soon as she stops queening (nice word eh?). Now his wife won't be a queen but she will be a princess because Nederland is much too small for a king and a queen at the same time. On April the 30th it's Queen's Day, which is not the birthday of the queen, but the birthday of princess Juliana the queen's mother (who used to be the queen). It is no wonder that more and more Nederlanders wish to make Holland a republic. Queen's Day, by the way, has nothing to do with royal festivities. It's just a Hollander's excuse to drink large quantities of alcohol. On Queen's Day Hollanders also sell garbage in the streets.

27. It might be wise to learn how to swim if you visit Holland. No, the dikes will hold, that is not the problem. The huge amount of ditches, moats, canals, rivers and brooks can however lead to mistakes. The shiny nice new asphalt road that you wish to drive your car on during a rainstorm, may in fact not be a road at all.

28. The Hollandse art. Most Nederlandse painters get to be famous only after they have died. That is a very sensible arrangement from the publics point of view. Not only do you get large quantities of paintings -a man has got to eat, right?- but it also makes a nice investment for art-lovers. The painters themselves do not share this view at all but are unable to do anything about it. In at least one case the frustration has led to self-mutilation involving an ear.

29. If one of your Hollandse friends invites you for a birthday party, prepare yourself for a unique experience. Unique, because it can only be compared to taking place on a wooden chair which has a sharp nail driven through the underside of the seat, and not being able to move for a month. More than one foreigner has been driven to the brink of insanity in just one evening. A Hollandse birthday party consists of sitting in a chair, talking to other Hollanders about your work, your car, foreigners and politics. You are expected to leave at 11 pm and you'll gladly do so.

30. Do not get sick in Nederland. Over the last ten years, the famous Hollandse healthcare has been privatised. These days some operations, like open heart surgery, have a waiting list of more than six months. The doctors don't think that is a problem, "More than half of our patients for open heart surgery never even show up anyway" they say. Some Nederlandse patients who have become desperate, move to a country like Mozambique, Iraq or Pakistan where healthcare is infinitely better.

31. Nederlanders leave their curtains open in the evening. This used to be so that the neighbours could always check if your family didn't gamble or drink alcohol. These days it is a precaution against junkies trying to steal the stereo from the family car, parked in front of the house. It has the fortunate side effect that you can watch Hollanders in their natural surroundings, in front of the television, watching soaps.

32. Holland has more cities than only Amsterdam. Like ..erm. ..Well, it has!!

33. Hollandse beer has made quite a reputation for itself over the years. Some people even drink it. Brewing is indeed one of the things Hollanders traditionaly do very well. Holland never used to be a country with anything more interesting to do than to drink oneself blind in new and interesting ways or make paintings. This made the beer industry very popular. Experts claim that once you have drank Hollandse beer like Heineken, Grolsch or Amstel, all other beers taste like the tapwater in a Rotterdam hotel.

34. Hollandse tapwater is safe to drink. This is quite remarkable considering that most drinking water comes from poluted rivers like the Rhine. Plans to improve the quality of the riverwater, so that fish like salmon will return to Hollandse rivers to spawn, can count on strong resistance from the Nederlanders. They don't like the idea of animals having sex in their drinking water.

and to top it off: and old favoutrite from the past when Diamond International ruled the Web with their TOP models!

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Milkyway/2375/pix/pix06_2.jpg

source: http://www.smother.com

[02_Needed]

I don't know if we are the only two Hollanders on this board...... But at least I am and I had a very good laugh....thnx for this wonderfull post!!!

[coolshot]

Interesting post editor, it made me laugh too and thats a great pic, thanx for posting them. :D :cool: :eyebrows: :thumbsup:

[legmonster]

Thanks editor. I am not from Holland but the list was very funny! Can't wait for part II. Did "Dutch" auctions start in Holland? :D :D

[mssh1337]

nederlanders ownen :D
ben zelf ook een nederlander ;) ben uit rotterdam
maar ik zal maar engels praten want anders kunnen mijn niet nederlandse amigo's het niet lezen :P

only true facesit lovers can read the message above.
only kiddin' that was dutch
this is my first post on this forum, but certainly not the last ^^

greetz,

[editor]

en zo is het!
Thanks guys for the replys sofar.
It is always good to take yourself not to seriously...

[editor]

*bump*(for the sake of humor)

[Cheek2Cheek]

But what do you call anything having to do with the Netherlands if not "Dutch" - Netherlandish? Hollandish?
As for their "imperialist past", don't forget another fairly well-known former Dutch colony - New York - formerly New Amsterdam.

[sniffer]

ohhh...New York...or ok New Amsterdam?...that was not a colony...we bought that for 60 guilders...
just one litlle remark on the funny story editor...uhh...Maxima will be Queen of Holland when the crown prince is becoming king of holland....for the rest...great story..grinnn.

[gunther]

Hahahaha, goe bezig daar Noorderbuur :D

[Cheek2Cheek]

What does the price have to do with it? New Amsterdam was created, settled, and occupied by the Dutch. Generally, when people from one place settle somewhere else and create a new city or province that is ruled by the country they came from, it's called a colony. Whether you buy it, find it, or take it from someone else, it's still a colony. Read any history of New York and it will tell you that it began as a Dutch colony. But you got a helluva deal on the price considering the value of real estate in Manhattan these days.

[eyeshot]

Altijd leuk om een goed verhaal te lezen.

Always nice to read a good story.

:thumbsup:

[Jerre]

Hey, it seems I'm not the only Dutch-speaking Belgian on this board anymore ! ;)
Now we only need Dutch-speaking Belgian sitters :D

[DandyA]

top notch and really really funny ... many thanks Editor for making me smile big time :)

I just hope you don't start on us Brits next!

[sub_with_character]

Yeah, off-topic as hell, but...

Hey, man, spent several times in your country without mishap, think this is just the usual assortment of generalizations you (or i) could assign to any nation in the world.

Ate Zoute Drops with no ill effects. Big ads for them all over Amsterdam. For a while they were even exporting them to a joint in the East Village, NYC. Along with myriad other Hollander licorice drops. Some people claimed they liked the flavor. Surprised you left out all the fruit-flavored gin. Lots of people find that pukey, but i liked it.

Your greatest self-mutilation over art took place when you did away with the
Beroepsvereiniging for Beeldene Kunstenaars (sp?), the artists' union.

Of course Hollanders aren't pacifists! Since when have any Europeans ever been pacifists?

Just add up the list of wars Euroniks have started over the last 3 centuries & earlier & then compare that to the number started by USniks. Be careful in this comparison to omit leftover communist propaganda, such as Vietnam, Grenada, Nicaragua, etc....

And please recall that USniks were forced to come over and settle a couple of wars started by Euroniks... so far at least no equal effort over here has been required from Euroniks...wonder if they would even bother coming...

Could this be just the usual European hypocrisy, busy trying to pretend all those wars didn't happen?

Also, once had a Hollander friend who claimed that you people invented concentration camps. In Indonesia, way before World War II. Any comments?

tot ziens!

s_w_c

[editor]

Hey utterly stupid dumbfuck.
Can't you read the sarcasm of my post reflected on the dutch way? I don't need these provoking way off-topic comments from some 'babykillin' Vietnam/Indian stealing socalled American moron.

How about the nazi doctors/scientists you let stay in the USA after 2nd WW? How about..

So cut the bullshit and keep on-topic and take this selfreflected topic not to serious.Or howabout YOU opening one on selfreflection the 'American' way...

[hubbe5522]

Great post Editor!

I really like Holland and Hollanders.. They are far more relaxed and open-minded than us hysterically politically correct Swedes.
I'll have to appollogise for our latest contribution - forcing Holland to criminalize import of soft drugs, through the EU. This has nothing to do with the drug debatte, but something is seriously wrong when a country (Sweden) makes another country adopt new laws. As if Holland wouldn't know it's own good. Hell, we are so morally correct that we even made it a crime to buy sex in our country. While prostitution is legal, it is illegal to use the services of a prostitute.
But you're gonna like this: There's now a new political party called "The feminist initiative" with only women (so far), believed to become a big political factor in the next election. Their first suggestion was to make men pay additional tax to even out the gender differences. They later took that back. Let's just hope they are supportive of facesitting :)

sorry if i'm being of-topic

[sub_with_character]

Yes, this is all hopelessly off-topic, but I utterly refuse to follow your example in letting it also become an obscene bile-drenched flame.

I will try to reason with you once more. Your response is precisely typical of what I have been explaining and was also long ago described in detail by Jungian psychologists as the
_DENIAL-PROJECTION SYNDROME_. You totally DENY all guilt & responsibility for Europe's endlessly bloody history, including the 50 million dead from WWII & the 20 million dead from WWI. And as your means of DENIAL, you choose to PROJECT all of your own guilt onto Americans.

Not only are there no truly pacifist Hollanders, there are no truly pacifist Europeans at all. If you disagree, just take one look at your history.

If I were to send you to my website, you would quickly realize you have no chance of winning this debate, since both my years & my intellectual accomplishments far outweigh your own.

No, I did not miss the tone of your so-called satire in the slightest. I merely objected to it as merely another example of Europeans trying to laugh off their character & history.

Even if Europeans finally end up ratifying their 349-page constitution--at the moment slightly in doubt--they are still likely to be defeated by the task of creating a EU that is fair to all its members. Tell me, did you vote in the MEP election? Do you know anyone who voted?

So go ahead, rant & rail against the US as the source of all world violence & cruelty & evil.

You are merely proving my point many times over. Why don't you try telling all this to Theo's ghost?

And BTW it wasn't Americans who murdered the "Indians," it was Europeans. The massacre was substantially complete by the 1780s when the US was created. The English & French wiped out Native Americans all over the place, the Germans in Pennsylvania & Ohio, the Dutch in upstate New York. And even if the slaughter continued afterwards, these were still sons & grandsons of Europeans who carried it out. Are you trying to claim that Europeans are so pure and noble that the moment they set foot on US soil they are
automatically transformed and degraded? Face it, the massacre of indigenous peoples here & in Latin America was the work of Europeans stemming from that alleged high pinnacle of world culture, 17th & 18th Century Europe. And later on Germans in Southwest Africa & Hollanders in Indonesia.

So stop blaming others, and try to become a bit more introspective before compiling lists showing how cute and quaint your customs & cultural foibles are.

s_w_c

ps----BTW, i'm not the least bit rightwing, during the 60s i wrote about the Nederland scene for the international underground press, my best friends in A-dam were Arch-Hippy Simon Vikenoog & A-dam Kabouter Staadsrad (sp?) members Frans van Bommel & Connie Bos, both also BVK officers. In fact i consider my contributions to this thread something of a latter-day Kabouteraktie.

[DandyA]

And BTW it wasn't Americans who murdered the "Indians," it was Europeans. The massacre was substantially complete by the 1780s when the US was created. The English & French wiped out Native Americans all over the place, the Germans in Pennsylvania & Ohio, the Dutch in upstate New York. And even if the slaughter continued afterwards, these were still sons & grandsons of Europeans who carried it out.

I *really* am not trying to start (or continue) an argument but I simply don't understand ...

Who are the Americans of bygone days and current times if not the descendents of the European (and presumably Latins and Africans) you so seem to so despise ...

Or to put it another way, where did the "Americans" of whom you're so proud suddenly spring from in 1780 when the US was created?

I simply do not understand ...

[sub_with_character]

Thanks for your message, DandyA.

Yes, you really are missing the point, two points in fact.

"...if not the descendents of the European (and presumably Latins and Africans) you so seem to so despise ... "

I don't for an instant despise any of these peoples, all i am saying is that i think Europeans need to be held to the same high standards they seem to use in judging others, including Americans.

and:

"where did the "Americans" of whom you're so proud suddenly spring from in 1780 when the US was created?"

I already made that perfectly clear. And why on earth do you suppose that i'm so "proud" of Americans? ever since the 60s i've been one of their sharpest critics, why else was i writing for the uground press? & i think our current government & president suck. what's more, unlike many Europeans i know the real reasons why this is true.

i simply think Euroniks should start being as critical of their own pretensions & system as they are of ours, often with little knowledge beyond TV & films of the latter.

There's a whole lot to be critical about over there, as i know from 12 years of first-hand experience. Somehow most of this simply passes Euroniks by.

Anyway, it's lots more fun to knock the US.

s_w_c

[hubbe5522]

I have to appologise for Swedens war adventures during the 30-year war in the 17th century

Had to get it off my chest...

[Royaldust]

(Hollands)
Leuke Post Editor!
Heb er flink om moeten lachen!

Bedankt!

(English)
Nice Post Editor
Had a huge laugh about it!

Thanks!

(Toch zijn de Hollanders op dit forum flink vertegenwoordigd)

[sub_with_character]

Thanks, Hubbe5522, that was pretty funny. Of course the reason it's funny is that it all happened so long ago.

Also funny: Have you ever been to the medieval German town of Rotenberg ob der Tauber in Franconia? Every summer they hold a giant pageant to commemorate how their Mayor dealt with Swedish General Tilly during that same 30 years war. Tilly had just finished slaughtering the residents of several nearby towns, including Dinkelsbuehl, if memory serves...

But the mayor made a bet with Tilly, which the general believed he was sure to win. He boasted that he could empty the contents of a giant flagon of wine, about two liters full, in a single gulp.

Said Tilly: No, you can't!

Mayor: Yes, I can!

Tilly: Betcha you can't!

Mayor: You're on! But if I win, you have to promise you won't slaughter anybody here.

Tilly: Sure thing! That's a real safe bet!

So the Mayor of Rotenberg drank it all down in one gulp. And his town was spared. Though as noted, people in other towns along his route weren't so lucky.

So every year they do that festival & perform a play in his honor, called Der Meistertrunk ("the Master-Slurp). And the punch line has Tilly exclaiming:

Bei Gott, er hat's geschafft!
Das war ein Meistertrunk!

Really funny, isn't it?

Then of course there's the Swedish conquest of Russia. Just in case anyone ever wondered why there are so many blond Russians. Still pretty funny, huh?

And then there's also something more recent...

Both Danes & Norwegians have told me Swedes really believed Hitler's Nordic superiority nonsense so that Sweden actually granted access to Nazi troops to march across Sweden to invade Norway.

Any truth to that? Hey, wouldn't that be funny too...!

s_w_c

[John]

Let me just say that I haven't killed anyone today....

But it's early...

[hubbe5522]

Ok, I apologise for that too.

[derek_700]

And then there's also something more recent...

Both Danes & Norwegians have told me Swedes really believed Hitler's Nordic superiority nonsense so that Sweden actually granted access to Nazi troops to march across Sweden to invade Norway.


s_w_c

Do you think it could be becasue of the Russian-Finnish war in November 1939 when the Russians tried to invade Finland?

And i'm sure Sweden and Norway both knew that at the time during the Russian-Finnish war that Russia had just invaded half of Poland September 17th 1939 (No Germany was not alone in that) they knew Russia was a very aggressive country and Stalin probably would not have stopped after Finland, he would have marched his red army all the way to Norway.

And no Britain wouldnt dare to help them and risk going to war with Russia, becasue of course at the time they where a tad busy with the Germans and concentrating on sending their armies to france for obvious reasons.

So perhaps that is why the Swedes didnt mind Mr. Hitler using their roads and airfields so that Germany could launch Operation Barbarossa against the Russians, for all we know if Hitler hadnt attacked Russia first, Russia would have attacked Germany, eventually they would have, becasue we all know what Stalin wanted, he wanted to "liberate" all of Europe by bringing it under Communist rule and he would have achieved that most likely.

So hubbe5522 you can take back your apology about Sweden's wise decisions in that dreadful, inevitable war.

[sub_with_character]

Just to bring us a bit closer to on-topic & to what unites us, you'd suppose that since those here are discerning enough to recognize that a woman can use a man every bit as effectively as a man can use a woman, they would be equally discerning about history & politics.

But based on derek_700's message, that is obviously not the case.

I clearly remember the whole Finnish-Russian-German debacle of '39 to '40, when as a child of 10 brought up in a family of cartographers, i avidly followed all the bloody campaigns, as they rampaged back & forth across a special war map published by my father. Finns against Russians, Finns allied with Germans, Finns against Germans, Swedes intervening only as it suited their purpose, it all made little sense back then, & it makes even less sense now. So it's not surprising that derek_700 is attempting to impose a rationalized view, perhaps the standard Swedish view. How convenient for the Swedes to have declared "neutrality" or "non-belligerency" with Germany as a mask for their racist support of the
Nazi regime. Had they intervened to favor the Norwegians & Danes, it's safe to say, since all of derek's arguments depend on "would" & "could," it could have had at least some effect on
the utimate outcome.

But instead the Swedes chose to favor racial purity over democracy.

I've never met any Norwegians or Danes who favor derek_700's interpretation, but of course whenever you have a Swede, a Dane, and a Norwegian in the same room, you have at least 10 different points of view.

His whole line of argument is all too typical of the way Euroniks talk about politics. Lots of dubious facts, crowned by a dubious interpretation, surmounted by a halo of intractable
self-certainty.

If any one is ambitious enough to find out how complex events truly were back then, you can find a simplified view of complex matters on these websites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Finland#Finland_in_World_War_II

We heard endless versions of such interpretations all during the Cold War, when Euroniks repeatedly castigated the US for opposing the Soviet brand of totalitarianism. After all, Americans were not truly mature enough to understand foreign policy, much less try to shape it. As i recall, Togliatti & Thorez were supposed to triumph in Italy & France, as the prelude to all of Europe going communist. After all, communism was the wave of the
future, the cause of the people, better red than dead, & besides the US was clearly endangering all of Europe, all of the world, with its nuclear warheads controlled by trigger-happy cowboys.

Unlike those miraculous Pacifist Euroniks who gave you WWI & WWII.

And probably most Europeans swallowed all this excrement, much as some of you just swallowed a few half-truths about Hollanders, indeed welcomed them as wisdom.

But communism is now dead (& like many of you i had mixed feelings about its passing). And the names Togliatti & Thorez grow dimmer every day.

And now Euroniks are doing it all over again with their vain, stupid posturing about Iraq & Islam. After all, Americans don't know anything about Muslim nations, only "we" Europeans have real experience. or: Islam is a faith that will live forever, and whoever opposes it only makes it more radical. Or: the US had 9/11 coming because of its trade
policies & all those McDonalds everywhere. Or: Only we Euroniks truly understand foreign policy because of our long, tragic experience of its destructive effects. But if this last were
true, Americans could only hope to understand foreign policy after starting two World Wars, causing 70 million deaths. Is this what you mean?

I have no use for Bush. But i also have little use for Euroniks unable to think beyond stale stereotypes. It seems to be a god-given article of faith over there that all Europeans are
automatically superior to all Americans. Gee, wonder why i never noticed it in my own family, which includes Brits, French, & Hungarians.

And make no mistake, Euroniks still win no special prizes for foreign policy. In fact the whole recent bloodbath in former Yugoslavia was effectively caused by one latter-day German war criminal.

I'm referring to Hans-Dietrich Genscher, who forced the US & NATO to favor Slovenia & Croatia at the expense of Serbia. And that is what got things really started.

And why did Genscher do it? Some profound raison d'etat? Not at all, he committed this folly simply to persuade Slovenians & Croations in his election district to vote for him. In my opinion Genscher belongs in the war crimes court right next to Milosevic.

If you really want to understand world politics, it's important to realize that things change.

Places like Europe & the US & the Islamic World & China look important right now. But with constantly shifting populations and changing birth rates and even revisions in religious
doctrines, all this could look quite different a century from now.

Even the term "European" is a relatively recent coinage, by Pope Leo II, who through his travels during the 15th Century realized that a commonality was arising among a number of states. But a century from now "European" may no longer have quite the same meaning.

So, no, Hubbe5522, don't recant your apology any time soon.

s_w_c

[DandyA]

.

[j28]

Originally posted by Cheek2Cheek
But what do you call anything having to do with the Netherlands if not "Dutch" - Netherlandish? Hollandish?
As for their "imperialist past", don't forget another fairly well-known former Dutch colony - New York - formerly New Amsterdam.

He-he... quite funny..
As I'm very interested in NW- and Norhern European history (on a hobby basis) as well as my fs-fetish felt I had to comment on these statements about the term "Dutch".
Some (perhaps) "off topic", but still relevant history-lesson;
The word "Dutch" is in much sense the same as the word "Deutsch".. Both terms (as I recall) have they're origin in the word "Teutonic"... a more general term for a branch of germanic characteristics...
The German language developed from proto-western germanic, so did the Dutch language. Old dutch was very similar to the languges that were spoken in northern Germany before 'High German' gradually replaced the dialects in these areas (Plattdeutsch/ Low Saxon = low german). The dialects "low german" was very similar to "dutch". "Dutch" has its roots in Frankish.. The Franks were a germanic/celtic tribe that entered present day Netherlands and Belgium (about the year 400-500 )from their original homeland in present day Germany (Franken?). Their germanic language developed into what's now called "Dutch"... At the time when the Franks arrived in Holland, the Frisians were already present there, and had been there many hundreds of years - even before the Roman Empire expanded to those areas.

[mystic37]

Very funny Editor and hubbe5522 you made me laugh even harder
Ok, I apologise for that too.

John spoken like a true American
Let me just say that I haven't killed anyone today....

Hate some had to try to destroy the humor :confused:

[boon]

first thing to editer i am really sorry for my post on new years which got me banned for a month i was drunk and had had an argument with my partener yours was the fist post i read so i had ago at you . hope you can forgive me i have always had the utmost respect for you . also to 007 thankyou i think your punishment was just and fair

on the topic of this thread i have been there and everything editer says is spot on funny but true and as for the rest of the crap everybody just wind your necks in your acting like children

[Teun-0165]

Goed gesproken:p :p

[DU007]

Originally posted by boon
first thing to editer i am really sorry for my post on new years which got me banned for a month i was drunk and had had an argument with my partener yours was the fist post i read so i had ago at you . hope you can forgive me i have always had the utmost respect for you .

also to 007 thankyou i think your punishment was just and fair

Genuinely good to see you back, boon....and thank you for your nice comments...:D

Look forward to seeing you around the forums again...

Cheers.

[I <3 Facesitting]

ah, niice, i always like laughing with my 'noorderburen' :p
i'm from belgium ^^:kissbutt:

[gunther]

Welkom I<3 :D

[Jerre]

Ooh, I'm not the only Belgian anymore :)
And I got a gut-feeling that I know I <3 FS :D

Now we only need Female Belgian members ;) (who live in my area :D)

[pooier_]

Hij praat als een metworst, die het vet ontlopen is

[pearl]

damn, this is awesome great share mate